There’s times when I’ve been the head of security in a place, so I always tell the guys, "Just pass around. Let them see you watching them. Don’t go out of your way to intimidate them or make them nervous, do it in more of a friendly way, like you’re looking out for them. Let them know that you’re there for their sake too. Ask 'Are you all right? How’s everything going?"

86ed: How about if there’s a woman out of control? I know you could never hit a woman.

Frankie: There’s been times I’ve had to grab a woman and restrain her.

86ed: Come up from behind?

Frankie: I try not to come up from behind somebody unless it’s an emergency –– somebody has a knife or is about to cut somebody up with a bottle or something –– because when you get somebody from behind, they go into fight mode. If you grab somebody from behind, anything can happen. If there’s a woman out of control, I try to talk to her. If she’s not gonna listen, then I have to try to bear hug her, and physically carry her out because I’m not gonna hit her. I try not to hit anybody.

86ed: Do you find that also because you’re a big guy, people might have something to prove by challenging you?

Frankie: The Napoleon complex. Totally. I’ve had guys working with me that are huge. I’m big but those guys were a lot bigger than me. There was a guy working with me that was a professional wrestler. He must have weighed close to 500 pounds. He was tremendous. All muscle. I remember one night there was this guy that was about 5'6", who actually wanted to fight this guy. It was hysterical because you see that a lot in this business – "beer balls."

86ed: It took a long time for me to understand that about men. Saying something to a man in front of somebody, they feel you disrespected them in public, even if the person watching was totally worthless. It’s different. Even there is one bum watching, they care.

Frankie: A guy won’t be able to look himself in the mirror if he knows some guy gave him disrespect and he let it slide.

86ed: You have an attitude that’s kind of removed. There’s some kind of immediacy you see in other people that’s not there. I’m wondering if it’s like an older sex worker. So many years of seeing how people really are. You’re charming, but there’s a distance –

Frankie: I think it’s a result of having gone through a lot of things in life, not having to prove anything –– feeling secure enough within yourself that you don’t have the need to impress yourself or others. When you’re young you’re full of hot piss and vinegar, you always gotta show somebody who they’re fucking with, what you’re made of or whatever, because really you’re showing yourself. I think when people exhibit characteristics of trying to prove something, they’re really proving it to themselves.

Related Articles from The Fanzine:

86'd Stories: Man about town and unlucky twin Rob Shapiro

86'd Stories: Sammy Reid and Jeff Dickinson on lost shoes, stolen gas masks and speed

Unicorns by Joanna Ruocco

Learn more about Jennifer Blowdryer's 86'd Stories project here.